I got hired a year ago in the fall, maybe November.
Did it feel good to be able to tell that story?
Always, with a documentary, you find your characters as youre going.
It was one thing when I met Howard, because hes a really good conversationalist, and very smart.
Howard didnt admit, at first, that he cared.
It doesnt hurt my feelings.
Which I thought was pretty shocking.
I cant believe that you wouldnt want the record set straight.
I never really expected that.
The crowds that you had there, its amazing how interested people still are in the whole story.
I really thought thered be 50 people, I mean honestly.
I really thought that its so out of the way, its really unpleasant.
What are they there to see anyway?
Were there to dig up some old trash.
It was a very nice surprise.
I really like figuring out, why do people want the story to take this shape?
What is the collective mind of the fans or the culture that pushed it into this format?
Theres got to be a reason for it.
For me, that was the other element of this story that was so compelling.
Heres a thing that happened and was reported on, so its not really a myth.
And the explanations of why they would have done it dont really make any sense from any objective viewpoint.
Well, that doesnt make any sense, because the videogames industry wasnt yet destroyed when they buried it.
No, theres way more to it than that, theres got to be.
That was the part I knew I was going to get.
The part I didnt know I was going to get was Howards story and the emotional content.
Thats really what makes the movie.
And thats watching this guy actually find redemption to witness people reconsider his work is really satisfying.
Even if the movie sucked it would be satisfying.
Another thing the documentary touches on as well is the excess that happened at Atari at the time.
I was wondering: youve been involved in the games industry and the movie industry in different capacities.
So how do the tales of excess compare?
Well, I think that was definitely a particular place and time.
That led to theAnimal House-like atmosphere.
I think the same is true in the movie business.
But the corporate side of the movie business is corporate now.
All those companies are owned by big corporations.
Its funny, you look, in this movie, at Warner Bros. Its a big corporation, right?
But Warner Bros is nothing compared to Time Warner.
Because it was still a company started by a guy who owned it.
It wasnt so huge.
Now theyre all international look at Sony.
Sony cant afford to have its executives doing crazy shit on the lot, you know?
Nor the people who worked for them.
Times have definitely changed.
It was more so at the beginning.
Im guessing it takes an awful lot of resilience to be a screenwriter in Hollywood.
I think thats fair to say.
Frankly, the internet has only exacerbated that.
Or, Im going to ignore them and keep going.
Thats a lot harder than people think.
I think a lot of people come to Hollywood not realising how difficult thats going to be.
Ill take the compliment that Ive figured it out and stuck around.
Like a barnacle for 23 years.
They havent pried me off yet!
Last Action Herowas a unique project.
What are your memories of that time?
Well,Last Action Herowas my first script.
You want to become a better writer for it.
We were replaced almost instantly, so as writers, we were shown the door.
It was actually pretty informative and interesting to watch.
It had its moment, I was able to observe it, and Im still proud.
I remember pitching it to friends, and everybody saying Thats a dumb idea.
I feel pretty good, actually.
In some ways, they were right, but I still feel good about it.
Thats how Howard and I bonded.
I was 23, 24 I guess, by the time of the premiere.
And I said, I promise, I didnt.
It was a dreary premiere for a lot of reasons, really, not just the script.
The script was actually the least of the issues in some ways.
That experience of explaining to somebody, You dont understand.
I get that you dont like this movie.
But you have to understand neither do I.
You just sound like you have sour grapes.
Howard and I definitely bonded about talking about that.
People playing the game dont care.
I do thinkLast Action Herohas similar qualities that now, people can say, Wait a minute.
This is a pretty crazy, subversive movie for a studio to make.
Like Howard, you were at the ground floor of something big being built up.
You were there when the Marvel Cinematic Universe was being established.
That must have been an interesting position to be in.
It was awesome, it really was.
One of my first jobs was writing a draft ofThe Hulk,in about 93 or 94.
They dont have to be silly.
Remember, we were coming off the back ofBatman & Robinat that point.
I grew up on a totally different kind of comic book,X-Menand Frank MillersDaredeviland all those.
A completely different aesthetic.
It should be science fiction, like James Cameron or Ridley Scott.
Now when I was saying, Why does he need a hideout?
I was very fortunate to be there when Marvel started as its own concern.
Because it hadnt been done.
Every X-Men movie I worked on, they said it was going to be the lastX-Menmovie.
Thats all audiences have the stomach for.
I remember having conversations with Kevin Feige.
Its so frustrating that they cant see what is so obviously the case.
Now, if anything, theres so much of it.
Thats possibly a different frustration for some people.
Maybe theres too many superhero movies right now, Im not sure.
But who cares whether it comes from a comic or a graphic novel, or whatever?
Its what makes a good story.
What was working with Werner Herzog like?
Ive worked with him a bunch of times now.
The first thing I worked with him on was the script for what becameRescue Dawn.
So thats how I met him.
And thenIncident at Loch Nesswas this crazy notion I had that he signed on for.
I literally said, I want to do a movie with this and this.
And he said [adopts uncannily accurate Werner Herzog impression], Yes!
Lets go and do it.
[Laughs]
So that was pretty cool.
I did this movie calledThe Grandwhere he plays the villain.
Look, its awesome working with Werner for a lot of reasons.
One of them is that hes hilarious.
But its also that hes a truly larger-than-life figure.
He just got back from Antarctica where he was stuck in snow.
Hes about to take a zeppelin up to a promontory that no ones ever been on.
Most importantly, hes a great person to have on set.
Because everybody stops complaining.
Its really funny and weird.
It can be tough making a movie, and theres always people upset about the conditions.
But then Werner shows up and someone says, Werner, what was the food like on Fitzcarraldo?
And he says [adopts that accent again], We ate beetles we pulled from the river.
And that was on the day we had food.
And we would sit on a sharp stick.
And it makes actors, particularly people who know him, bring their A-game.
All the people are like, Okay.
Im around this person whos one of my heroes.
I want to do my best work.
As a starting director, youre not going to get that respect, and for good reason.
No matter how good you are, theres going to be a test.
Thats one of the things about making a movie theres people testing you.
Its not a bad thing.
From a professional standpoint, working with him is a joy as well.
Mostly hes my buddy, and its cool to hang out with him when I can.
I think thats what makes him unique.
I dont know anyone in Hollywood like him.
Hed say, If I have $10,000 to make a movie Ill make a $10,000 movie.
If I can get $20m, Ill make a $20m movie.
If I cant get a fiction thing off the ground, Im going to do a documentary.
Its kind of thrilling.
Exhausting to watch, but hes one of those rare people who can do it.
So whats next for you?
Youre working onPacific Rim 2, arent you?
I have a bunch of things going on.
Im writingPacific Rim 2with Guillermo [del Toro], just trading it back and forth.
I just wroteReady Player One,the adaptation of Ernie Clines book.
So that is something thats been going along pretty well, and I guess its moving forward.
Its out to directors.
Im also writing a pilot for my wife for Showtime.
Its a bit of a crazy… its the way Hollywood works.
But Im not complaining.
I dont know which of those will come out next.
Ready Player Oneshould be exciting.
Im interested to see how thatll work as a film.
I have to say, its been a long time.
I feel like Im fairly modest I dont think Im the best writer, or the best at anything.
Its very rare that Ill say, Oh my God, I totally nailed that.
People ask me aboutLast Action Heroand say, They should have made your script.
I say, Ah, go read it again.
Only the first 40 pages work.
I figured out how to deal with the central conceit and still keep the spirit of the book.
Thats definitely an issue how much its going to cost to make that movie.
But I feel pretty good about it.
Why dont you just go do that…?
And withReady Player One,youve got some of the same thing.
The good thing about it is that its more positive.
Its look at all this shit I love.
How can I use it to create a new adventure?
It definitely has some of the same spirit.
It tapped into my inner 13-year-old again, in a good way.
Its kind of a love letter to a medium, as well, isnt it?
The same asLast Action Herowas to films.
His is a love letter to pop culture, and its certainly a love letter to Atari.
But its also a love letter to movies as well.
The book is obsessed with movies, too.
And I think I got to ride on that train.
Its very hard to capture what makes the book great on film and do justice to it.
Zak Penn, thank you very much.
