So how do you both see the industry at the moment?
WhereasShaun The Sheepis pure, old-school models on a set, you know?
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Paul Young:You know its small.
Theyre making a virtue of the materials theyre using.
TM:Its really Aardman as well, and theres such a character to that.
I could make a model like that, likeShaun The Sheep.
Thats a slight difference to CGI, where the barrier to entry is a bit higher.
Where do I start?
When you watch a 2D film, you think, I can actually draw Saoirse.
They like to make things.
Its that garden shed mentality, isnt it?
The shed mentality, yes.
It is, isnt it?
So are you positive about the way things are with animation?
Because on the flip side, were also at the end of an era as well.
Takahata looks like he might be retiring, Miyazakis retired.
PY:But theyre doing two more films.
Studio Ghibli isnt shutting down theres one coming out that a friend of mines translating.
Was thatWhen Marnie Was There?
TM:Yeah, thats the one.
Takahata and Miyazaki, yes, theyre retiring.
But theres a whole generation there that youd hope would want to keep Ghibli going.
I definitely think that 2D animation is in the space that stop-motion animation is in.
Its a specialist technique, and its used for certain stories.
The mainstream has definitely gone CGI.
Its not going to change back, and wishing it wont make it so.
And I dont wish it anymore.
Ive realised that its been a liberation for traditional animation, to be marginalised, as it were.
Let CGI take the blockbusters, and then hope that traditional animation will be free.
All the potential that traditional animation always had is back in the hands of artists rather than corporations.
People dont have Disney to look to now to copy, so now they have to reinvent themselves.
When photography came in, painters had to reinvent themselves.
They invented expressionism, impressionism and cubism and everything else.
CGI is here now, so theres no point in doing Disney-style animation.
You have to find another way to do traditional animation.
TM:Yeah, let them do it.
Were much freer for it.
People often say to me, Would you like to do CGI?
Do you know what I mean?
I think the place for independent animation is to offer something else.
And anyway, we dont have the money to do it.
It would just look like a cheap knock-off if we tried to do it.
PY:And theres a lot of interesting short films being made using CGI.
David OReilly, another Irish animator, hes done some amazing things.
He didPlease Say Something,which won the Golden Bear in Berlin.
I think the person before him was John Lasseter with his short [Luxo Jr,1987).
That was the last animation to win the Golden Bear.
Theres lots of stuff there.
It has to look different.
Were not looking for that big breakout opening box-office weekend, because we cant.
Its always 50 over a long, slow period.
So its a long tail.
Theyll know us for a certain quality, a level of authenticity, I think.
TM:The thing about hand-drawn and traditional animation is, there is a timelessness to it.
Bambican sit side by side with anything.
You find it exciting when youre a child, and it stays with you.
TM:You definitely relate to the characters in a different way.
You map yourself into them more, because theyre so simple.
Theyre little symbols that become an avatar that you’re able to see the world through.
The closer you go to realism, the more they become somebody else.
Pixar have been amazing with their human character design.
They simplified their characters and made them cartoon characters.
They went away from that very creepy, very real thing.
TM:Yeah, and all that weird mo-cap stuff.
I thought that was very interesting.
Upwas a gorgeous film.
But he had a square for a head!
[Laughs] You know what I mean?
It was very cartoony.
But that was backwards.
The more realistic they became, the more they seemed like zombies.
We felt dislocated from them.
You really cared about characters that were more exaggerated and cartoony.
Its important to feel the hand of the artist at work, isnt it?
TM:Thats a great way of putting it.
They showed it to [Nick Park] and he said, But I want to actually do it.
Thats something you cant fake.
It just comes through.
The little imperfections come through.
The hand of the artist.
PY:Shaun The Sheeps so great because I think the digital team was about five people.
you’ve got the option to see the weave on the blankets.
TM:Whats wonderful is that stop-motion has improved with computers.
Technology is the friend of traditional animation.
It doesnt have to replace it.
It can help you do it.
TM:Yeah, oh yeah.
I remember I went to seeAntz, and I was like, This is definitely the end of stop-motion.
That people would always appreciate it, but not at all.
It wasnt really about that.
I was thinking of Davids stuff.
And then the next thing will be your virtual reality movie, where youve got a headset.
Kids wont be able to do that so easily.
Or maybe they will!
TM:Yeah, sure.
People appreciate the piece of pottery on a different level than they appreciate the perfection of a 3D-printed pot.
[Laughs]
But two Oscar nominations is an incredible achievement.
Two for two is amazing.
So how has that made a difference for your future plans?
PY:I think its given us more confidence again.
Sometimes its great to be recognised.
But certainly, the Oscar nominations the best marketing it’s possible for you to get.
TM:For me, it was a stamp of approval from my peers.
Because the nomination comes from the animation branch, so those are other animators.
But I wondered, Is now the time to go and get a real job?
That was really going on.
I talked to Paul about it a lot.
I was kind of curious about what it might be like to work in the bigger studios.
Its great to see something independent.
Thats what it felt like.
It felt like the industry itself, or our peers in animation, endorsing what we were doing.
And that was massive.
Even since then, Ive made friends with all the nominees, and theyre all really great guys.
Animations a lovely community in that way.
Its given me the encouragement to keep going.
PY:Animations like that.
Because there are no movie stars in animation.
There are no movie star directors, either, because its very collaborative.
Its such a collaborative medium.
[Laughs]
PY:I didnt!
Im saying everyone has an ego!
[Laughs] Its just lovely and collaborative.
Tomm Moore and Paul Young, thank you very much.
You canread Part One of this interview here.Ourread our in-depth feature about the making of the movie here.
Song Of The Seais out in UK cinemas on the 10th July.
