In the very early stages you were doing some work for Hammer and the like.
Can you tell us more about that.
Actually, we did one in the Hammer Studios.
And we built all the sets, got everything ready.
It was actually a really great project.
Hes fascinating and it was a perfect marriage between the two.
Everyone thought this was frivolous.
And I remember being in Malcolm McLarens office and saying, You know, I think youre dead.
[laughs] And it [the movie] was cancelled a week later.
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Thats a great pity.
Working with someone like Russ Meyer must be absolutely fascinating.
It was deeply fascinating.
He was actually a very intelligent, very unique individual.
Yeah, it was an interesting period.
You also didRandall and HopkirkandJason King?
I was fortunate that John Box took me on as teaboy onOliver, and mentored me.
He designedLawrence of ArabiaandDoctor Zhivagoso I started with the top.
I was stuck in the office drawing and I hated drawing, I hated being in the office.
Youve got to do these sets.
And Charlie said, I think this is what youll be good at.
That was it, the directors loved what I did.
They said, Great.
That must have been great.
I learnt a lot, you know.
Because TV series were relentless.
Like every ten days you had to turn around new environments.
You basically learned to get out of trouble quickly.
Did that tie into some of your very high profile commercial work later on in your career?
Yes, it did.
I think they were for me, a bedrock of experience.
I learnt very fast.
Then I worked with another very talented designer, Philip Harrison on several movies.
We did some hugely experimental sci-fi movies that were amazing at the time like Michael MoorcocksFinal Destination.
We did some amazing sets at EMI studios, and Philip taught me a lot as well.
Sir Peter Hall directed and Sir Michael Tippet did the music and Ronald Blythe wrote it.
They were the three big Suffolk contemporaries.
We filmed over a year and it was absolutely beautiful film that was premiered on ITV to much acclaim.
Again, it was always that kind of work that I was getting.
I designedMahlerfor Ken Russell.
I got on really well with him.
Because theyre kind of always the innovators.
They may not always be in the box office, but theyre the innovators.
Les Dilly was an art director I worked with a lot.
He was in Mexico on this film,Lucky Lady.
They called me out to help.
There was only four of us in the art department.
It was a huge movie I mean really huge.
They called me out to come in and help set decorate it.
We were all given individual areas because it was so big.
It was in North Mexico.
It was written by Gloria and Willard Huyck, who had written some concept ideas forStar Warsfor George.
He needed to find the people who understood this vision of ancient worlds applied to the future.
They said to George, You and Gary Kurtz have got to come down to Mexico.
So they came down to meet John and I and DP Geoffrey Unsworth in particular.
George came round and looked at the sets we were doing.
I was dressing a salt factory set in 1929.
It was all broken down.
It was like a Western.
When I came back to LA I had been sick as a dog.
I had paratyphoid and we had a meeting with John Barry who said, Look.
Ive been offered this science fiction film.
They want you to do it.
This is what it is.
I said, Yes.
Are you a science fiction fan by nature?
Thats what I read all the time.
It gave me a feeling that yes, there was more than what I was experiencing all around me.
Because it was not the best times then.
When you met George Lucas for the first time, where you particularly aware of him?
Had you seen THX orAmerican Graffitior any of those?
I knewAmerican GraffitiandTHX.THX, obviously, we all kind of loved.
Its like one of my favourite moviesAlphaville, that Jean-Luc Godard made.
Its all that vein of stuff I loved and understood.
So, George then came to England with Gary.
I came up with the idea of making the dressings from scrap.
That was my invention because I couldnt afford to dress it.
Ive always had this idea.
I used to do it with models when I was a kid.
Id stick things on them and wed make things look old.
I found all these scrap aeroplanes that no one wanted in those days and bought them…
They thought I was mad.
I dont know what youre doing.
I take it George Lucas locked into that very quickly?
Yeah, because I understood the film.
I understood what was beneath the surface.
Theyre like these plastic things that go boop.
So I said, This was my idea.
I got a Sterling submachine gun.
We did it ourselves for three days and we created all the guns.
We got a Walther for Han Solo, and the joy is they could fire on set.
Is pathfinding the thing that really fascinates you?
Trying to find ways out of impossible corners.
Its interesting in telling stories.
You know, George had a terrible time on that film.
The crew didnt like it.
Science fiction was really out of favour at the time.
The crew thought it was a pile of rubbish; we were supporting Americans making science fiction.
It wasnt really highly within the consciousness of British cinema at that time.
All of that stuff.
So, I stuck by Georges side.
The four of us did.
And his thank you to me then was to give me the money to makeBlack Angel.
My first directing piece, which he tied toEmpire Strikes Back.
That was the thank you I got and it kicked me off as a director.
How didBlack Angelcome about?
No, I was having a hard time to get it made.
I was working onLife of Brianat the time.
I was doing that with Terry; we were designing it together and that suddenly got cancelled.
That same afternoon Ridley pulled me down to Shepperton [Studios] and said, I dont care.
Because it was not something you just do randomly.
It had to be done based on a kind of knowledge.
This is where it all comes to fruition.
Tarkovsky, I love his work.
The stories of that shoot [Alien] are that Ridley Scott was under the most intolerable pressure.
Is that how you recall it?
They hadnt given him any pre light days on a film like that.
So he was finding his way to get the look, as we were shooting the bridge.
Why is he taking so long?
And I said, Hes done like thirty-five setups.
I dont understand what you guys want from him.
And the rushes are awesome!
Just awesome every day.
He actually exploded one day.
I was right next to him because I went onto the front line.
Id got the look of the dressing working and the art department, my section, sorted.
I went on to be standby art director, because no one else wanted to do it.
But that, for me, is where filmmaking is, and especially being with Ridley.
Id done commercials for him.
He was a mate.
I went stand-by art director on the floor the entire time.
Ridley exploded one day.
Put his fist through the ceiling in frustration at the pressure that was on him.
Had you seen pressure like that on a film set before?
[Contemplates]…It was different.
Because when you saw the rushes every day we could all tell this was something amazing.
But I dont know.
I dont know what they expected in those days.
I guess because hed doneDuelliststhey all thought, Oh, well, hell turn this into something arty.
But, I dont know.
When do you think they all got it?
Was it not until the tills started ringing?
They [the studio] were really not backing it.
That screening made the film a hit, when it got out.
Were you at that screening?
That would have been amazing.
It would have been, yes.
[laughs]
Its interesting thatStar WarsandAlien, in different ways, seem quite parallel projects.
WithAlien, in the rushes, you saw it straight away.
Would you say it was the same case withStar Wars?
Did you see that that quickly?
Yeah, I knew.
I could see it.
Wed had a few of the effects boys over with us, and this was ground-breaking for the day.
A taste of what was coming in the future.
So I knew this would rise like a phoenix.
And it needed to be finished to rise.
The way that George wanted.
Do you recall seeing the film for the first time?
I actually held off watching rushes then.
I didnt see anything.
I felt I left my seat.
I just came out of my body.
It was just one of those moments that you think, My god!
How did it feel when you sawAlienfor the first time?
And the set was great.
Just being in it you kind of plunged into that world.
It felt like being in a ship.
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