Writer-director M Night Shyamalan talks about his new film, Split, its making, themes and lots more…
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Congratulations on the film.
The conversation was about the things that happen to us, that change us is that bad?
Is it always true that being normal is the right place?
That non-suffering is the way of life, you know?
Shes had a different experience.
These kind of healthy girls that shes with, she cant really relate to them.
Theyre not mean theyre actually really nice.
Its a flip in this movie: youre in a life-threatening situation because youre good.
I was explaining this to everyone; These are the nice girls.
I hadnt thought of it that way.
[Caseys] a non-conformist, isnt she?
I might be wrong and getting old, but I sometimes feel that societys becoming increasingly conformist.
You have to act, look and dress a certain way to be considered successful and popular.
I was in Madrid yesterday, where we had a screening at a university, and it was packed.
The kids were all losing their minds.
I was saying, All we have, to alter the world, is our point of views.
So cultivating a specific, honest, new point of view is [important].
So dont just think the same way as everybody else.
Its so hard, though.
I mean… how old are you?
Im 39, so I was around way before social media and stuff, so…
Yeah.
So theres something belonging to your girlfriend here, and there might be a baseball mitt over there.
We have moments where we can just be ourselves.
Its kind of fascinating, given the films subject matter of compartmentalising, right?
Do you think of yourself as a non-conformist in terms of filmmaking?
I know my instincts are counter.
I get most excited when Im doing something that hasnt been done before.
Whether its the truth or not, its a feeling I get.
I feel heartache if something feels similar to something else.
So in that way, yes.
It made me really inspired.
What is it that they were doing?
What was it that went on in that movie that [made it so effective]?
Theres something there, you know?
Why am I drawn to this, why am I drawn to that?
Really go for it.
Really dig, dig, dig, you know?
It inspired me to think like that.
Because its so easy not to; its so easy to generalise.
Its less work, but not as satisfying.
Do you think thats what you did withThe Visitin a certain way?
For me, I feel excited by that challenge.
Go make the best movie you could.
Ill be like, Yeah!
[Rubs hands eagerly]
Its so exciting.
I dont know what it is about that, but limitations really excite me.
I dont trust myself with excess Im a minimalist.
I like limitations: You have to have the script done by this point.
You have to shoot it in this many days.
You have this money.
So working with Jason Blum has given you the chance to experiment, then, within that smaller form.
You know, its really funny.
Jason Blums really prolific with his company.
I make these movies, and I ask Jason to come on as an advisor.
So I showed himThe Visitafter it was done not completely done, but about 85% done.
No ones ever involved in all that stuff.
What I like is, Heres what Im worried about.
Im worried about this; Im trying to do this what do you think?
Should we show it this way.
And then its, Heres the movie, what do you think?
Oh, you thought that part was slow?
Hes more like a big brother advisor.
And I love [Jason Blums] tastes.
Hes super calm, and he calms me.
He gets me in my better head space, so Im not being defensive.
It comes from confidence so, for example, we showedSplitfour months before it opened, right?
We open next week.
We showed it, I think, in September, in Austin Texas, at a film festival.
Its crazy to do this, with a movie with the ending that it has and all that stuff.
I said [to Jason Blum], This is what Universal is suggesting.
And theres a huge chance that were going to hurt our movie here.
What do you want to do?
So Jason and I talk it out, and I trust him.
He comes at me and goes, We got the goods, man.
Go in there and just trust it.
Its not a guarantee, but lets trust it.
If I dont have that big brother there, I probably dont make that move.
I come from insecurity.
Either way, it was still the right decision.
Thats a perfect example, though, right?
A big giant decision like that you dont want to make it in a vacuum.
Jason and I, I love us as a team, and I hope we make more movies together.
Im lucky to have found somebody that champions original filmmaking like that.
Thats the interesting thing looking over your career, is that you havent done any sequels or remakes.
So its important for you to have that control.
Heres what Id say: theres an optimal process for me.
That process looks like this: I want to take the pressure off the original shoot.
I dont know what were shooting, but everyones coming back.
So think about that.
Then you go, This scene doesnt work for me.
God, I know we can do that better.
I didnt want it to be angry, I wanted it to be this.
Those kinds of things.
So slowly you build up what you want to shoot, and the schedule gets filled up.
You tell all the actors, This is what were shooting.
Literally, right up to the day were filming, Im still filling it up with things.
Those three, four days get full, so you automatically get a second rewrite before its done.
So they broke down…
I think it was in November.
So just, like, three weeks ago, I took the sets down.
Because I was, like, Wait, wait.
I need that, I need this.
If I say, Im working on the movie, can you spare me a Saturday?
When can you come back?
Come to Philadelphia, and well grab that scene.
You know what I mean?
Both these films have allowed me to hone it, and thats the process thats the most important.
And yes, with that came, I have an idea and I can just execute it.
Theres no committee, theres no checking, theres no nothing.
I just go ahead and do it.
Its interesting how you balance the fear we have for the antagonist and the empathy we have for him.
This reminded me a lot ofPeeping Tom; I dont know if that was an influence.
I dont think Ive seen that.
Michael Powell, 1960.
Ohhh, yeah, yeah.
I havent seen it, but I know of it.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
You could watch these two films on a double bill, I think.
You know, Im gonna write that down right now.
And I wondered if you were aware that going out on a limb like that can be risky.
So in a traditional narrative, you probably dont want to sympathise with the antagonist.
But most of them are great, so now what are you going to do?
My big question, that I love, is: someone with DID is holding a gun on someone.
Can you shoot them?
Because youre not just shooting one person, youre shooting, in this case, 23 people.
Are you going to extinguish 20 consciousnesses when only three are really capable of immoral acts?
If you truly believe this, that the mind and body are different consciousnesses, you cant.
Its a really powerful idea.
It is, yes.
And then you could jump…
I dont want to get all philosophical, but one could argue thats why you cant kill anyone.
I was going to say that, because human beings are complex.
Were not just one person.
Theres something that could get you or I to commit a crime.
So should we be extinguished because of that part of ourselves?
Theres a real argument there, then, for not killing anyone.
Youd have to ask him.
Im blurring now what the challenges were, because it was all so challenging.
For me, I have a tone in my head and Im trying to get it.
That one where you did the thing with the eyes.
Shes a fanatic, right?
And her fanaticism makes her forget that other people are not on the same page as her.
She thinks, This is so beautiful, whats happening to you three.
Its so beautiful that youre a part of this ritual.
And I am equally offended with Dennis touching you.
Thats completely wrong completely wrong.
I mean, Im angry.
Once he gets that vibe, thats her.
And blind to the notion that this might not be what these girls want.
She really is amazing.
Thank you so much.
I really relate to two kinds of actors, which is, the highly-trained, technical actor…
I can just be, like, I didnt buy what you just did on the fourth line.
You moved from there to there, and I dont buy it.
And if they make a run at fight me, Ill say, I didnt buy it.
I can push and push and push.
Then there are the newbies, who are just open and raw.
I can do the same thing, and theyre hyper-sensitive to everything I say.
Anya was hyper-sensitive, just like kids are.
So you came off as arrogant there.
Because I didnt write her that way.
Shes not meaning to hurt these girls.
That kind of thing.
It suddenly becomes a real thing that they empathise with.
Like, Im just pretending to be this person.
Because we learn so many pretending things as adults, we dont even realise it.
Even that, [adopts a note of false delight], Hi!
Everyone does that, and thats fucking, not real, right?
Thats the proper level of speed for our emotions: Oh hi.
Great, nice to meet you.
Again, its creating a persona, isnt it?
Its wearing a mask.
Yes, it is.
Its really fascinating, the stuff were talking about.
Like I said, I like the way your films go out on a limb.
You dont do the obvious thing; you dont take the easy way out in your storytelling.
Im thinking about something likeThe HappeningorThe Last Airbender.
Well, you shouldnt really look at the result, even if the result is great.
That shouldnt be where the energy goes.
you might smell when Im trying to kindly you.
And if theyre trying to yo, theyre not artists.
Thats the definition of a prostitute: prostitution is the selling of a value system.
My energy should be in, Did I do the very best version of those characters?
Did I understand those characters, or did I round the corners?
Did I rip out my soul to get to them?
Was I truly honest with myself in uncovering these characters?
If you put the energy there and tie it to that craft, it will work out.
Because people will say, Theres no way around it.
He has a very clean value system that he believes in.
Ive learned over the years to not put my energy into that: Youre an idiot!
Dont put any energy into that; the only thing that matters is the story and the characters.
And again, everything will work out if you do that.
With that, were out of time.
M Night Shyamalan, thank you very much.
Splitis out in UK cinemas on the 20th January.
