This article contains spoilers for, er,Petes Dragon.
Did hell freeze over?
It certainly seemed to, seeing Sony Pictures and Marvel Studios partnering on a Spider-Man movie.
Yet thats just whats happened, withSpider-Man: Homecomingedging closer to release.
Quite a chat, as it turned out…
I want to start with some quality clickbait if I can.
Ive got a copy here… Amy:I do look insane, dont I?!
What year is that?
Kevin:I was the class of 1991.
[laughs a lot]
[They spend 30 seconds of my interview time then looking through the magazine.
Disney refused to cooperate on this story it grimly reports.
Kevin (to Amy):I cant believe you posed for a picture like that!
[they both laugh.
A lot]
Amy (to Kevin):Do I look the same now?
Kevin (to Amy):You look the same.
Amy (to Kevin):My lipstick was crazy though.
Ill be honest, this isnt where I thought this interview was going.
But the article was at a point where longform writing about film was a regular thing.
Now, its driven by clickbait.
Kevin:Clickbait is the worst.
Thats my big moral highground, when I dont punch clickbait.
I searched your name on the way into this room to work out what not to ask you.
[I show him a screen of clickbait stories that come up].
I didRevenge Of The Nerds.
On a point of order, I think it wasRevenge Of The Nerds II.
Kevin (to Amy):You worked onRevenge Of The Nerds II?
Amy (proudly):I did!
That was Joe Roth [directing].
Back then, I didnt know it wasnt okay to talk to the editor!
Im going to make movies no matter which way I go.
That you were adamant about it.
Kevin (to Amy):Where did you work then?
Amy:Columbia Pictures.
Dude, Ive worked at Columbia since 1988!
How have the types of movies you wanted to make changed in the intervening years?
Amy:Well I got to make this movie with Kevin!
It seemed like the perfect time to make movies, when I got to makeSpider-Man.
Kevin:Good answer, good answer…
Amy:I always wanted to make movies no matter what.
No matter how I was getting to do it, thats what I wanted to do.
What was the spark then as kids that turned you to films?
Was there a teacher or parent who helped sparked that?
Kevin:It was the television that turned me to film.
My parents did take me toPetes Dragon.
Disney did a remake of that recently, that was very good.
I showed my daughter.
Kevin:Both were terrifying!
The funny thing is I showed my daughterE.T.recently, and she was like, itsPetes Dragon.
Its a boy, who makes friend with a creature, and has to say goodbye at the end.
Id never made that connection!
Amy:I like that.
Kevin:Shes totally right.
Theres more death in the newPetes Dragon, though.
Kevin:Yeah, yeah.
And in the original, theres more singing!
[Laughs] But for me, its very clear, right?
I talked recently aboutSuperman: The Movie, because I attended an event with its director, Richard Donner.
Who, rightly so, was being honoured by the Academy.
[laughs]
He madeThe Omen!
He madeSuperman: The Movie!
He made great movies.
The Academy, though, and we have to be careful here, should recognise popular films.
Popular films are what make it all work.
There was no segregation between good independent films and popular movies.
Amy:No, no!
Im not saying thats your motivation for making the film…
Amy:[nods] But its nice!
Amy:I will tell you: its a lot to do with the Marvel ecosystem.
Its different from the traditional studio system.
Because it is, for how absurdly, incredibly successful they are, it is a family.
It is a loving family.
It is a group of people who only care about making things good.
They dont choose directors who dont want to work with them in the way that they work.
And the directors that they choose are better for having done it.
And they usually come back for more.
They usually make more than one.
I dont think that people think of them in the same way that people think of Pixar.
Because Pixar is story-orientated, and they think of these guys as epic movie orientated.
It used to be animated movies, now its comic book movies.
People call them a genre, which seems absurd to me.
But also, as a consequence, it changes the way films are assessed.
That comic book movies tend to be compared to comic book movies.
Amy:We dont think thats right.
Weve been talking about that.
Comic book characters are characters who wear costumes.
Theyre not necessarily different than other characters.
They have dramatic human stories.
Kevin:Yeah, as comics have.
People who know and read comics know that theres a huge diversity amongst the types of stories.
Nobody ever goes how many more of these movies based on novels are there going to be?!.
People laugh at that question and they go novels, there are all different types of novels.
But there are all different types of comic books, they just happen to have drawings on the cover!
I went to seeFast & Furious 8, for example.
It was called a different name in the US, wasnt it?
Kevin:[grins]The Fate Of The Furious!
I went to watch it because of Statham, obviously
[Kevin laughs.
Amy:That man cant do anything wrong.
Weve long championed The Statham on our site, and then he become famous!
Amy:When I saw him inThe Transporter, he was wearing the coolest watch!
A Panerai watch, it was the first time I ever saw one.
And I thought he was the coolest thing ever.
Kevin:We talked with him about doing a role in one of our movies.
It didnt end up working out, his schedule didnt work out.
But I was in another meeting a few days later, and my cellphone rang.
I didnt recognise the number, but I answered it.
Kevin:And he was saying sorry it didnt work out, maybe next time.
He couldnt have been nicer!
[Looks at Amy] You get calls from movie stars all the time on your cellphone.
This was so exciting.
Im guessing you dont want to name the film you almost cast him in?
It was worth a try, right?]
Going back toFast & Furious 8, then.
That theMad Maxfilm obliterated the goalposts, and what you could do.
Kevin:I think you could ask that question of any films, though.
The difference is that yours are so successful.
Its one of the reasons whySpider-Man: Homecomingis so exciting.
Hes such a young teenager in comparison to these other heroes.
And then of course that influences your work, and the way you make films.
Versus seeing a movie that is this is so awesome!.
Oftentimes, a really good movie just inspired you to go and make movies!
Going back to discovering Jon Watts.
How would, say, Hope Dickson Leach the director of that film come to your attention?
And that we actually see everything.
They see everything, tell us about it, we see it.
You have to have people who work with you, who say you have to look at this film.
And then you look at it.
You really have to look at it.
You have to look at movies all the time.
And we loved it, and we thought there was something really rare and different about him.
That kind of feels like a Spider-Man director to me.
you’re free to never take that out.
It can never get too big for its britches, and when it does, it doesnt work.
Was it a big thing for you that a lot of the lifting inCop Carwasnt done through dialogue?
That really struck me about that film.
Amy:Thats the thing that struck us too.
He actually knew how to make action tell the story.
Kevin:The performances he got out of those kids.
Amy:Its astonishing how many people who direct action dont know how to tell a story.
Spider-Man: Homecomingspecific, then.
Well, yes and no.
I hate watching footage.
I want the finished film.
Talking to you too has basically ruined the film for me!
Amy:I know [rolls eyes]!
We want you to see the movie!
I will, I will!
That Peter Parker has watched these heroes appear and grow from the sidelines too.
You know we have to spend 20 minutes talking to journalists to make them understand that usually!
Ah, so I passed the test then…!
Kevin:And this is something we were talking about earlier.
That one fact alone about Peter Parker is an interesting thing.
Well, thats your core story isnt it?
Amy:Yes, yes!
Kevin:Put Spider-Man on top of it, and it becomes even more interesting.
We for a long time had wanted to do a movie from the street level.
What would that be like from kids point of view, whos grown up in that reality?
And thats what we do a lot.
We go heres the story were developing.
Okay, lets take the superhero out.
Is it still interesting?
Amy:Yes, it would!
But what was the two to three years before like?
Before this deal happened?
Amy:It was a friendship between the two of us.
It was a collaboration between the two of us.
Weve known each other from the very first Spider-Man movie…
If Ive got this right, the first movie that you both worked on wasYouve Got Mail?
How funny was that?
Its not the story people want to hear, is it?
That the ideal clickbait story is that youd have both spent years hating each other or something?
Amy:Is that the story?!
But I sense thats the story that some would like it to be.
Amy:[Laughs] But its just not true!
Were gigantic fans of each others.
I think that Kevin is the smartest person, the best film executive, producer going.
Kevin:Amy is the one who made this happen.
And I think they think that because its probably true in a lot of cases.
But in her case it wasnt.
It was a love of Spider-Man.
Amy:And wanting Spider-Man to be the right Spider-Man.
And needing another story to tell, other than the story wed been telling.
Because we were telling the story of him alone.
Amy:He said, I cant help you unless Im actually involved!
Two very quick things before Im chucked out.
Do you have a memory of working for Dawn Steel, though?
Amy:She wasmagnificent.
She was the person who told me I could never wear shoes like this!
[Amy shows me her shoes.
She and Nora Ephron told me you cant wear those crappy shoes, nobody would ever take you seriously.
Ive been wearing them ever since then!
And after a fight, wanted to go and work for her.
So she said come over.
And shed just been fired by Paramount for having a baby at the wrong time.
She had this baby, she was taking over Columbia, and she had these slate floors.
I just looked at her and said I just want to beher!
[Laughs]
One last thing.
A storyteller who hasnt had someone discover them?
Kevin:The only thing Ill say, and Im sure everyone says this, is stick with it.
I got rejected five times.
You just keep going, keep going, keep going.
Amy:I would say too, do what you know.
Dont have a go at be someone else.
Amy Pascal and Kevin Feige, thank you very much!
