Hillcoats latest movie,Triple 9,is a tough heist thriller set in modern Atlanta.
Also starring Chiwetel Ejiofor and Woody Harrelson, its another intense and stunning-looking movie from Hillcoat.
Relaxing in a comfy chair, Hillcoats the polar opposite of the characters that populate his movies.
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John Hillcoat:[pointing to my notepad of questions] Oh!
Theres a lot of notes there!
Ive got a lot of questions.
I probably wont have time for half of them, but I thought Id write them down anyway!
Ive read about your love of gangster films and westerns those genres.
You clearly have a voluminious knowledge of those subjects.
And this feels like another chance for you to fuse the two.
Was that why you took it on?
Ive long, long been a big fan.
Ive already forgotten what the first question was!
Have I gone off topic?
No, no, no.
I wondered whether you chose it because of its contemporary setting.
And also, with crime, its a world where…
I love that you have the existential criminal whos gone down a path, and they cant stop.
Theres something great about those sort of characters.
Theres also the moral dilemmas, the murkiness.
You know, I love these shades of grey, where things arent what they appear to be.
People arent who they appear to be.
That is, again, something thats great about crime films.
Thats the Michael Mann-jot down criminal, isnt it?
Not just inHeat, but inThiefas well, where theyre self-made but locked into what they do.
And Jean-Pierre Melvilles characters are quintessentially that.
And of course, it goes back to noir.
It actually comes from Europe, where filmmakers were fleeing the Nazis and going to Hollywood.
That invigorated the golden era of Hollywood.
I sawThe Long Goodbyeby Robert Altman again recently.
I love the way that these genres can keep being reinvented.
A Prophet, I thought was brilliant.
Thats the thing about these genres when you see them reinvented.
But yeah… the pressure these characters are under makes them fascinating, I think.
So what doesTriple 9say about the modern, 2016 landscape of criminality and police?
Theres more in the way of ex-military that become police because of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.
But also theres the cross-pollination now where they have their own SWAT teams and tanks.
But we couldnt access it, we couldnt afford it!
So that was a tiny version, actually.
The Israeli-Russian mob is also ex-KGB and much more ruthless, much more sophisticated, much more intimidating.
And likewise with the cartels, those are again in this underworld its terrorism as well.
[Throws up hands]
This is probably too much information.
But we went into this neighbourhood, where its all the Bloods.
And everywhere you looked the Bloods were on show.
It was a housing project really a tough neighbourhood.
I thought, Hmm, thats a strange mix, whats going on?
And they said, Oh, thats a cartel guy.
No one goes near him.
[Laughs] Yeah.
So the whole criminal landscapes changed.
The police force has changed.
Do you think its a reflection of a more harsh society as a whole?
I think whats disheartening is that everyone has been throwing petrol on the flames instead of water.
There has been this escalation, and thats whats kind of alarming.
The kind of corruption we have now… Federal Agents are easily corruptible now, because theres too much money and too much fear.
I remember what you said aboutThe Roadbeing about corporate cannibalism.
Theres always something else going on in your films.
[Chuckles] I do love those films where the world works on many levels as the world does.
I think with genre, theres room to elevate genre, to include all that stuff.
At least I hope so.
I hang on to that belief.
Like, [mimics Wile E Coyote clinging to the side of a cliff] with my fingertips!
The sense of realism works both ways doesnt it?
Thats what I love about research.
And I find actors respond to that really well, as well.
They really respond to that immersive experience.
That elevates their performances.
And crewmembers, its that collaborative experience.
They can sink their teeth into that more.
you could see them on YouTube.
They use them in bank robberies.
They stick the dye bombs in the cash.
That came through research.
What havent we seen?
Its that layer of chaos, too.
No matter how much you plan something…
Something random can go wrong.
So it was trying to make that big action more real and unpredictable.
And that creates more suspense, actually, in traditional storytelling.
That was going to be one of my questions, actually.
Whats your personal approach to generating suspense?
What do you think the secret is?
The unexpected is a huge part.
Because you shouldnt always know whats coming.
But also mood Hitchcock was a master of suspense.
The master of masters!
And he often flagged what was coming, so that can create suspense.
It all depends on context.
But thats more about the anxiety of knowing whats coming.
But theres also the anxiety of something random thrown in that takes you off guard.
So I think its a couple of elements, really, that do that.
Is that something else that came from your research?
Other than Anthony Mackie and Casey, all those other guys were real, working [police].
They were there to advise and tell us how it really is done.
And I had no idea.
But again, thats the military training, so it enriched the film greatly.
We had ex-gang members as well, so all of that really helped.
They form a coherent worldview.
Do you agree with that?
Im very sensitive to, like… Ill just give you an example.
[Laughs]
I just suddenly [reels] Oh, this is a movie.
Shes a movie star.
It just threw me, right?
So I love the detail of creating a world that is totally immersive in that way.
And that does take time.
But of course also theres trying to find ways, too, where things arent predictable in established genres.
Thats increasingly hard to do, because theyre so well explored.
But I also love music, and genres in music.
Blues, rock, jazz, folk.
So yeah…
Do you know what you want to do next?
There are some other genres Id like to explore that I havent done yet.
Im keen to do a sci-fi.
Thats something I have written here, look.
Would you like to make a sci-fi film.
Id love to see you do a sci-fi film.
Ive been looking for alo-o-ongtime.
Actually, an American western would be great you know, a full-on, up-front western.
I mean, many things.
Comedy, Im still in awe of.
I think you need a comic genius somewhere in the mix.
Its got to be the actor or someone.
But the comic genius actors are the darkest people on the planet and that kind of scares me!
[Laughs]
Im not afraid of the dark, as you know from my films.
But I am afraid of comic geniuses.
[Laughs]
Either the writer or the actor, or with something likeDr Strangelove you have all three.
Genius director, writer and actors.
And genius set designer.
Oh yes, absolutely.
But you need someone.
And thats kind of intimidating for me.
I think Im being kicked out now.
John Hillcoat, thank you very much!
Triple 9is out in UK cinemas on the 19th February.
Its well worth seeing.
