Jodorowskys Dune director Frank Pavich discusses the greatest sci-fi film never made.
To achieve his ambitious vision, he enlisted artists Jean Moebius Giraud and H.R.
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Den Of Geek: What came first for you in this?
Were you aDunefan or a Jodorowsky fan first?
Frank Pavich: I came to it from the Jodorowsky side of the things.
I knew his work for years.
Id been a fan of him for years.
But never have I heard of a story of an unmade film that was so completely realized.
Do you know what I mean?
Ive never heard of anything like that.
But then whats also so interesting is the influence that it had out into the world.
You see aspects of it in so many other films.
Films that weve all seen.
Like who do you know that has never seenRaiders of the Lost Ark?
Its quite an amazing feat.
Was there sort of that personal sort of relevance to you in a way?
I think on both on a conscious level and on an unconscious level.
He had no more contact or knowledge of Orson Welles that I did with him.
Was it actually difficult to get hold of Jodorowsky?
It took a while.
There was no Internet back then.
But luckily I had the Internet.
So it was definitely easier for me than it was for him in a lot of ways.
But still it was difficult.
I eventually found an agent that he had in Spain.
So I sent an email to his agent and I said is it true that you represent Alejandro Jodorowsky?
And if so Im looking to speak with him.
I would love to speak with him about possibly making a documentary about his experiences withDune.
I didnt want to open it the whole week.
What if it was him crushing my dreams?
So the week passed and then I finally had the guts to open it up.
I live in Paris.
So I got an email from him an invitation to come and see him in person.
How are you going to beat that?
I went right away to Paris to go and meet with him.
He never cared about that.
And that I was destined to kind of do this film.
Or maybe he saw just that kind of blind ambition that he has when hes making his projects.
But whatever it was that he saw he was very accommodating and agreed to work together on it.
Meeting with him in person and sitting down to interview him, what kind of impression does he make?
Hes like a myth.
Does Alejandro Jodorowsky really exist?
Does the guy that madeEl TopoandHoly Mountainactually breathe the same air that we do?
Does he bleed red blood?
How is this possible that I was admitted into his apartment and was seated?
Then a minute or two later he came shuffling into the room.
It was the guy.
It was the real live guy and it was an incredible moment to get there to meet him.
And it was wonderful.
And he was very accommodating.
Hes a wonderful, incredibly giving, incredibly gifted human being.
Oh, definitely, although that wasnt offered on that first day for sure.
We were seated in these two chairs were facing each other and in between us there was an ottoman.
And on the ottoman he placed thatDunebook, but he had it placed facing him.
But then as we got into production then everything was open to us completely.
He said whatever we need was ours.
(Producer) Michel Seydoux said whatever we need was ours.
Everybody was completely supportive of the project, H.R.
So they were all thrilled to be involved.
You know, hes got a museum in Gruyeres and we filmed there.
This is not the some joke.
Did you have a go at get in touch with anyone from Pink Floyd about their possible involvement inDune?
In your opinion was JodorowskysDuneactually filmable?
Could it have been made?
Jodorowsky envisioned this as a 12-hour film on an astronomical-for-its-time budget of $15 million…
Even the producer says it was estimated at 15 because who really knew what it was going to be.
It was just going to be what it was going to be.
But its also kind of the evolution of the project.
It started as the novel and then Jodorowsky went into his castle for two months and wrote the screenplay.
And then once he got his team of spiritual warriors, then they started crafting all the storyboards.
Many, many changes, many ideas evolved in the translation from script to artwork.
Jodorowsky talks about these little miracles.
He calls them little miracles that happen when youre on the set.
And sometimes theyre good and sometimes theyre bad.
Sometimes they work for you and sometimes you oughta find a way around them to make something new.
Do you think science fiction cinema would be different today if hisDunehad come out and notStar Wars?
We know what this timeline looks like whenDunewas not completed.
But those ideas still got out there and, you know, the fact is thatStar Warswas completed.
Now lets say that JodorowskysDunedid make it up onto the big screen.
What would that have meant?
Lets say it was the biggest disaster in the history of mankind and it completely sunk a studio.
It put thousands of people out of work.
I mean think of the worst case scenario.
And 20th Century Fox was not supportive of the film.
They thought it was silly.
They thought it was stupid.
And withoutStar Warswhere do you end up?
What kind of films come after that without that blockbuster mentality, without these sequels, without these franchises?
And ifAliens not completed in the same way then maybe that wouldnt be successful.
And then if thats not successful you dont getAliensandAlien 3.
So its really like everything that we know completely changes, completely for better or for worse.
Its really an interesting set of parallel universes.
And where doesBlade Runnercome from?
And if you look atThe Long Tomorrowit is exactly the production design fromBlade Runner.
It is that world.
Moebius and Dan OBannon showed that to Ridley Scott and he thought it was fantastic.
And then he and Syd Mead kind of ran off with it and made it into reality withBlade Runner.
And what science fiction films are more influential thanAlienandBlade Runner?
I mean all these worlds directly lead back to Jodorowsky and his project ofDune.
Its just really astounding.
Its just really incredible.
Theres so many limitations put on all of us by the real world and by real world realities.
Why would we ever want to limit ourselves?
You should never tell yourself no because everybody else is going to tell you no anyway.
And if you tell yourself no then youll never do anything.
You just have to keep moving forward, keep trying.
And its not about the success that you envision.
Its not about the failure that you think it might be.
Whatever it is, you come out as a different person.
In making this film I get to share this vision with the world.
I get to speak on the phone and meet people like you who I probably would never meet otherwise.
Its all fantastic and every day you learn more and more.
Youre meeting new people.
Youre thinking of new ideas, new creations.
And it all depends on your perspective.
you might be miserable.
Hollywood used my group.
Look at Giger, look at his career.
Look at Chris Foss.
Look at Dan OBannon, thats incredible.
And thats the only way to be.
Thats the only way that you could live otherwise youll shrivel up and die.
Have you seen his latest film (La danze de la realidad/The Dance of Reality)?
Oh, Ive seen it several times.
The film is incredible.
If you havent seen it yet its totally amazing.
And you might see theres a sequence in the new film, which also comes fromDune.
you might see a similarity from one of the scenes that we animated to one in his new film.
Do you think theres a definitive version ofDunethat can be made?
I wonder at this point.
I mean I think there is the Lynch version, which is the really unique vision of it.
So I guess that kind of satisfies the people looking for that.
But I mean what would the next version be?
Can you tell that massive story in a film version?
And then people say, Ive seen this before.
It kind of happened withJohn Carter.
So I dont know ifDunecould ever been made again.
Whos going to make a 20-hour - nobody wants to watch 20 hours.
He said recently the public, the viewers, they have an urge to see longer stories.
This whole idea of short attention spans was maybe not completely true.
How manyHarry Pottermovies were there?
So once again its an example of how I think he was ahead of the times.
Are there any other great unmade films, sci-fi or otherwise, that fascinate you in this way?
If this was just an unmade project, who would really care?
But its an unmade project that lives, that still exists.
it’s possible for you to see in so many places.
People consider KubricksNapoleonto be the greatest film never made.
I think its JodorowskysDunebecause it has the power to keep living.
Did it still get out into the universe?
JodorowskysDuneis so powerful that it cant be contained in that book.
It has to get out there.
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