If youd like to hear what we thought of the film,our review is online here.
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Jon, what initially got you interested inSuperman Lives?
Jon Schnepp:Well, for myself, it was the artwork I saw online.
Thats what interested me in the project.
I think hes an amazing performer who gets in and creates a character out of every role.
So, I wanted to see what he was going to do with Superman.
I used to check every couple of months for concept art, to see if new stuff popped up.
So I was like maybe I should…
I bet I could make a cool documentary, and no-one else is gonna do it!
Who else is gonna do this bullshit idea?
So making something, having to ask people permission…. Its a waiting game.
JS:There were a couple of moments.
It was very difficult to contact them.
About a year and a half into the actual production, we got contact from Tim Burtons executive producer.
And this was all the friends web connection of the internet.
People would reach out and say Ive got a friend, who has a friend.
So I would be, like, following leads left and right.
So it really was like mini Batman detective work.
Bruce Wayne trying to find out what happened to Superman!
Thats how I would imagine myself… Maybe, not really.
But yeah, I think it was when we finally got Kevin Smith and then Tim Burton.
Holly Payne:It was like a stepladder effect you got one, then you got the other.
And then more of the story started to piece itself together.
Even with the concept artists, you didnt have this piece of the puzzle yet.
But then the next interview, just by pure serendipity, they would have that other part.
And it was just like piecing it together.
But that was a really big yeah, weve got a movie now, you know?
Because you have to have everybodys input to tell the most democratic documentary story that you could.
So, having him in it was like now its well-rounded, now its got its full shape.
Speaking of Jon Peters, were you expecting him to be the villain of the piece?
And it was great, his house is like… Bruce Waynes manor.
You know, there are creative ways to figure that stuff out.
I want kids to identify with him!
Just like they identified with Batman, because he fights real people, with real weapons.
Real ninjas, as he says in your film!
JS:Yeah, he really feels like that.
Like thats one of the reasons it cuts through.
Like it really cuts through to the kids that hes fighting with a real sword.
I mean, I can see where hes coming from.
Cant we make them like 25 feet tall?
Why cant he fight them and show how tough Superman is by fighting thirty ninjas?
And he says it, because the kids would go YEAH!
But it was awesome interviewing him.
Photo credit to Nick Flohr.]
Because those scenes are really cool…
JS:It was always an idea, from the original get-go.
Just enough to film a few scenes.
You had to do them within Fair Use, which is how we didnt break the law.
So were using their words, and bringing their words to life, from the drawings and the concepts.
So, its a fun way of envisioning what Tim would.
HP:But with a minimal budget.
JS:A very minimal budget!
Credit again to Nick Flohr.]
So, who was your Superman?
And what was the process to choose them?
HP:That is a very good question!
JS:That process was very, very organic.
Just like so much of the film was.
I would say this is what I want to do and then it would just turn clockwise.
And Ill be like alright, that will work as well!
So, with this process, we had done a casting call.
We found a guy who could do Christopher Walken imitations.
HP:And he was very squirrelly!
JS:[Laughs] Well, yeah.
And then, the guy who was making the actualSuperman Livesrecreation suit for us…
HP:…
But this guy called Matthew Hiscox came in, hes got the suit, and…
He looks kinda like Cage!
I said thats our Superman!
And he wasnt an actor, but hes really enthusiastic about all of this stuff.
And knows all the ins and outs of every suit, in any superhero film ever made.
He was really good.
HP:You couldnt ask for a more enthusiastic person.
JS:Plus, it had a fun little element ofEd Wood.
Where its like, the suit already fit him, so Hollys like what about him!
and Im like, can he act?, he doesnt even need to act!
He can just stand there, as Superman.
And then he actually could do some acting.
HP:He was really good!
JS:He was good, yeah.
And his enthusiasm really helped sell a lot of those fun things.
He was way better at doing stuff that a normal actor wouldnt do.
Hed do it, and wed be like, that eighth take is the one.
HP:He was having fun with it.
The other thing is, his dedication was such that he actually tracked down the originalSuperman Livesbelt.
And made a model of it, a casting.
So the belt in the actual film is based on the original suit.
And, in a certain sense, about artists being suppressed.
Like, you know what, I wanna see…
I know theres something under that rock, and its gonna be like a giant… iceberg.
Okay, I didnt know what it was, but I wanted to see what it was.
The outside perception of this film is simply wrong.
Keeping it smooth, and tracking…. And it was artistic, and it was Superman.
And what about changing the perceptions of Nicolas Cage, specifically?
JS:Oh, I think its all of that.
Its changing the perceptions of Tim Burton of being a spooky, creepy director.
HP:Of Jon Peters being this Doomsday figure
JS: a mad man!
Of not just Superman, or Kal-El, but of Clark Kent.
Because he hears a joke from a mile away!
But hes with these other people!
When you have an actor like Nicolas Cage…
He would have fucking nailed it.
My God, some of things he says are just gold!
Thats a real guy!
RP:And youre just like this dudes a phenomenon!
These waypoints, and with these characters.
Its easy, its tangible, its right there.
Because if thats ever been online, Ive never seen it.
HP:Yeah, nobody has!
JS:Its one of their own personal tapes.
HP:Theres 45 minutes of it!
JS:Its so much fun, because its a like pay-off when youre working on something.
And its, like, a validation moment.
HP:I think I cried a little bit!
It was refining it, and asking why does he wear a cape?
asking questions that anyone whos making a film should be asking.
Dont just go uhh, its cause its in the comics!
And can we add to it?
How can we make it better and more significant?
Its a heaving exhale of what if?
Do you ever think how all that passion could have turned out completely differently?
HP:It would be a totally different perception!
JS:It would be a totally.
THATS THE FIRST THING!
Not to say that they werent smart.
They were like who cares whatSpheremakes?!
So, ultimately, thats what did happen.
But it would have been a smash hit.
It would have been fantastic.
It would have changed comic book movies and, in a way, everything that we live in now.
Is it good to have started something?
JS:Can I be honest with you?
I am glad, but at first it irked me a little.
Because this was very copycat-ish, even the way the text was.
It was a fan, who watches a lot of my shows.
HP:The guy whos making it is a huge fan of Jons.
JS:Right, so it felt a bit like well… you know?
Youd better put the work in.
And thats truthfully where me irk came from.
I have the access to the footage, and things like that.
I might do a YouTube series.
So, to be able to share and explore these things, and show people look what you missed!
or heres something that thank god didnt happen!
who knows what some of these might be!
You know, Darren AronofskysBatman: Year One… its countless!
Itd be a cheap thing, like ah, well, there you go.
The reason I didSuperman Livesis that I really cared.
Every time I see artwork, every time I see anything leak, it interests me.
So thats what drove me to do the documentary.
Jon Schnepp, Holly Payne and Robert Pierce thank you very much.
The Death Of Superman Lives: What Happened?is out now atwww.tdoslwh.com
