Im not quite sure what the correct term is!
Then some people said it wrong and thats where greeblies came from!
So greebles, greeblies and nurnies are much the same thing.
I did read somewhere that it might be George Lucas that came up with the term.
Is that right, or is it an urban myth?
Theyre probably the most well known model makers in the world.
What do you think of the history of greebling pre-Star Wars?
Star Warsrevived effects techniques forgotten by Hollywood, but2001: A Space Odysseywas a pioneer.
Ive even read somewhere thatWhen Worlds Collidemight have had a bit of greebling in it.
Oh yeah, yeah.2001: A Space Odysseywas probably the first huge milestone in terms of the greeble details.
What it comes from is very practical.
Theres always budgets and schedules, right?
So the need for greebles has more to do with budgets and schedules than anything else.
But you need that rich detail to make science fiction or mechanical things look like they do something.
I was reading about2001s use of model kits, breaking them apart for the details.
Thats referred to as kit-bashing.
Its basically using parts in ways youre not supposed to use them.
So again, its about speeding up the process of making a model.
Whereas a professional takes pride in the day or week they spent on making a model.
So its about making it look as though youve spent a long time without actually spending a long time.
Thats what you want to do with them.
A lot people really underestimate how much attention is paid when doing this.
But its like, Oh, maybe this moves fuel.
Maybe this moves electricity.
Maybe this is a central hub for a bunch of electrical connections.
You put that thought process into it.
So part of it is making it look mechanical and functional.
They also make a run at fill entire areas.
Right, like the Star Destroyer.
And that comes from a practical aspect.
Thats part of what drives where we put the details.
We want it to be aesthetically pleasing, but we have to balance that with functionality.
It was a rail gun.
It was a World War II Tamiya model kit, maybe?
Yeah, what was it called?
They used it a lot, right up to the time I worked there.
It was the… Ill look it up.
Its become a real hobby for people [discovering which kits were used to make the models].
I think its great!
The Leopold, thats what it is.
Its the Leopold German rail cannon.
Each model maker had their own favourites.
So what we usually did is the same thing.
Thats why we had re-occurring parts.
Its funny to see the life of a greeble after weve finished the models and handed them all off.
And on the very back of the Millennium Falcon, there are the engine panels.
Those are all bulldozer shovels.
Thats why the layout is very, very important.
Thats always the goal to make it look like it does something, and not make it recognisable.
In quality science fiction models, you dont see a whole lot of transmission for parts.
But for some reason, in low budget movies you see lots of transmission for parts.
Because its too recognisable as pieces from an automobile.
If you use a military kit, its less recognisable to the general public.
What do you think the first film was that did this kind of kit-bashing approach?
Was it2001: A Space Odyssey?
The first one I know of was2001.
It was so far ahead of its time.
Its basis is in design and aesthetics.
That was one of the first movies to come out that also included a lot of behind-the-scenes promotion.
People wanted to see how the movie was made, how the miniatures were made.
We didnt get a whole lot of that with movies predatingStar Wars.The documentaries were more about actors.
It wasnt so much about the visual effects.
Douglas Trumbull do you think he might have helped kickstart Kit-bashing?
Its possible, yes.
The people who worked with him possibly know.
I have not had the pleasure of working with him.
You started in the mid-90s at ILM, just before theStar Wars Original Trilogywas re-issued.
Yeah, I joined in 1995.
We actually did more miniatures for the prequels than were done on the original series.
A lot of people dont know that.
Like, the landspeeder had panels missing from it, like an old, beat-up car.
That was all part of his vision for what that world looked like.
There were model effects in the prequels, but people assumed they were CG.
So model effects are still really prevalent.
Yeah, it really is.
I hear it all the time, people are like, Dont you ever miss it?
And Im like, What are you talk about?
I never stopped working!
Its like the birth of the rollercoaster ride visual effects movie, right?
So this all happened while we were still at ILM.
Jurassic Park only had 65.
But then wed hit 200, and then 300, and wed be saying, Woah!
300 effects shots in a movie!
Then the next thing you know were doing 900, then a thousand.
By the time wed finished the third Star Wars prequel it was over 2,000 shots and we stopped counting!
Its just overshadowed by CG.
you’re free to see one behind me.
We have three printers in our department alone.
Its definitely a game-changer.
We do pretty much 3D print 24 hours a day for all the projects were working on.
But we still have a hallway in the model shop filled with model kits.
We always want to give the directors and the production designers the most bang for their buck.
We design with that in mind, and we end up with a much better end result.
We do a lot of kit-bashing in the design process as well.
If youre familiar with the techniques of model-making, it is often faster.
If it is in the computer well 3D print it so we can see it in its environment.
That there still directors who are really keen to put that technique front-and-centre.
Christopher Nolans got a really great approach, actually, to miniatures.
You dont have to fight it you dont have to attempt to make it look real.
In so much of computer graphics, you have to go to a huge effort to really do that.
So he likes to do everything full size that he can with the actors.
So you have a benchmark you have to hit.
I think the brain picks that up.
The human brain is something we struggle with all the time in visual effects.
Really minor details in their environment.
So thats a visual effects artists challenge youre trying to trick the brain.
Thats why the uncanny valley exists with performance capture or trying to do CG humans.
Or even miniature humans thats really tough.
You have to build in imperfection in computers.
So the models have many different purposes now.
Its just a giant room with a giant green screen and a bunch of motion capture cameras.
So it helps them to see the miniature environment, to know what the scenes about.
What can they tap into as actors in that environment?
Models serve a lot of different purposes these days.
Its become more important than ever.
The Stan Winston school has been incredible.
I definitely have some more DVDs planned.
Were all doing what we can to educate people to do the work because we need them.
Its amazing to learn that its far bigger than you realise.
A lot of the model makers who you see in Cinefex magazine are still hard at work.
None of us actually want to leave, its kind of addictive.
Of the films youve worked on, which do you think has been the most challenging technically?
Every single project has its own challenges.
The challenge is more to do with getting people together to work as a group.
In terms of blowing things up,Elysiumwas the hardest in terms of stress.
We only had one take.
That was definitely one of the most stressful moments of my career.
It was seven months of work leading up to a couple of seconds of shooting.
Blowing things up didnt used to be as stressful because we used to get three takes for everything.
So we would blow things up three times and take the best one out of those three shots.
Theyre these big, elaborate things.
Miniatures also arent as small as people expect them to be.
Often well refer to them as bigiatures.
You cant call them miniatures when theyre 35 feet long!
Elysiums another one where you wouldnt necessarily realise that it even has miniature effects in it.
Thats the ultimate goal for any visual effects artist, is to go unnoticed.
It wasnt one of those big, rollercoaster-ride movies.
It had a lot of depth and emotion.
Those are the more challenging movies too, because you dont want people to think about visual effects.
You want people to care about the characters.
So if were doing our jobs right, we go completely unnoticed!
Youve worked on some of my favourite films.
Im looking at your CV and thinking, oh my God, these films are amazing.
You haveGalaxy QuestandStarship Trooperson there.
That would be one of my favourite movies even if I hadnt worked on it.
I love that movie.
To work on it was so incredible.
We had prosthetics and they had all the physical effects artists in that movie.
The movie holds up a lot better than movies that have come out since.
If you watch it now, it still looks fantastic.
Christopher Nolan… Im not allowed to talk about any of the others!
Fifteen years later, and it looks better than some movies made two years ago.
Why do you think that is?
People still hold upStarship TroopersandJurassic Parkas still looking great today.
Is it the hybrid quality you talked about?
It is.Jurassic Parkhad a lot of Stan Winston creatures in it.
Those things always integrate with the lighting in the scenes perfectly because theyre actually there.
So I think those are the best visual effects, probably, that have ever been done.
Thats why its exciting to see what theyre doing with theseStar Warsmovies.
Fon Davis, thank you very much.
