Don Hahn interview: The Lion King, Disney, Pixar, Frankenweenie and the future of animation

[Laughs] Yeah!

In your film,Waking Sleeping Beauty, you go even further.

And we had all the elements to make the rest of the film great.

The response was so effusive that it scared us.

We thought hows it ever going to live up to this?

And ultimately I think it did, because we still had Elton John and Tim Rice.

Eltons a great dramatist, and was able to help us put music into the film.

We had great directors.

We had Hans Zimmer, which was a big secret weapon.

And it just needed time.

There were lots of obstacles.

We had a major earthquake happen six months before the movie came out.

It was a dramatic finish, but it got done.

Was this the first one that was really expected to be a big success?

Even taking into account that, in production,Pocahontaswas viewed as the next big one.

I think that was a healthy pressure.

OnThe Lion King, we were always referred to as the B-movie, because it was a great risk.

Doing a movie about Africa, doing a movie with no humans.

A movie with Elton John, who hadnt really written a musical before.

It was seen as an experiment, a branch out into new territory.

We knew we had to try a few things.

But it was always not seen as the next big success from Disney.

I have a photograph!

He lived up to his word!

The studio was trying to manage expectations all the time.

They were saying listen guys, we dont have to hit these high numbers.

A movie will never hit $200m again likeAladdindid, so dont try.

make a run at make a good quality movie.

Of course,The Lion Kingthen went on to make $425m or something ridiculous.

So in a lifetime it’s possible for you to never hope for that kind of success.

All you might do is keep your head down and try and make a good movie.

Was Disney trying to put you in that kind of protective bubble when makingThe Lion King?

So if you were a thinking animator, youd think wheres Alan going?

Because thats where the hits going to be.

But it was seen as somewhat experimental.

We werent spending a lot of money on it.

So much of it was serendipity, and was unplanned.

Certainly, the success of it was hoped for, but unplanned.

WithThe Lion King, I thought it marked the next move on for Disney.

You talked about Howard and Alan, and the style ofBeautyandMermaid.

And you mentioned Hans Zimmer before, who I thought was an integral part of it.I agree.

We talk about the music of The Lion King, and people tend to refer to the songs.

But Ive always thought the score is comfortably one of Hans best.

The Lion Kingis the one where it kind of turned a little bit.

How conscious was that?

Howard and Alans musicals, the music from the songs existed in the score.

It was very much like light opera.

That wasnt the case withThe Lion King.

So it was a style change for us.

Was the temptation to get the opening song sung?

For a while it was about having characters on the screen singing that.

And we thought no, to have Simba breaking into song would be really weird.

The opening was always meant to be an anthem.

There were never characters on the screen singing that, because that felt odd to us.

But we did do it in the film.

A number of songs,I Just Cant Wait To Be KingandBe Preparedare sung by characters on the screen.

Musically, it shouldnt work, because the rules are always broken.

Simba sings, Scar sings, but adult Simba doesnt sing, and Rafiki doesnt sing.

And theres voices that we dont know.

A woman who sings at the beginning who we dont know.

And another woman singsCan You Feel The Love Tonight.

Musically its very disjointed, but it works.

We couldnt get that song to work, and we cut it out of the movie.

And, of course, it won the Oscar for that year, which is tradition!

We cut it out and didnt tell Elton.

So we took the movie to Elton, and showed him.

His face went very bright red.

In a very controlled way, he said I think youve ruined the movie.

What we hadnt done was lay pipe for it, and prepared the audience for it.

Thats where he was really right.

And that earned the right to put that song in there.

Smart man, Elton.

You said after the success ofBeauty And The Beastthat success has a thousand fathers.

There were very obvious changes at Disney afterThe Lion King, both for tragic and organic reasons.

Presumably afterThe Lion King, the number of fathers is up to ten thousand by that point.

We certainly made successful movies after that, movies likeTarzanandLilo And Stitichwere successful.

And yet there was a course correction.

For some reason, afterThe Lion Kingyou get the rise of Pixar.

You get the love affair with computer graphics, which is understandable, because they are modern miracles.

And you probably get a little decline in storytelling being self-critical here on the part of Disney animation.

That level of success was never achieved again.

Go for something like aHunchback, that is creatively bold.

You take Ursula inThe Little Mermaid, and shes just a great villain.

Shes fairly straight, though.

Scar, theres more to him, and theres an understandable evil to him.

We tried to push the envelope a lot.

I think the movies arent determined by the Disney brand.

I think the Disney brand is determined by the movies.

And we also took some courage out of Walt Disneys films.

Something likeFantasia,Bambi… theres some very range-y, dramatic choices in his movies.

Not all of which were successful at the box office.

But thats okay, because its very much a part of the plot, and not gratuitous.

And its the same with Frollo too, by the way.

A couple of things.

Lion Kingmade some sense because certainly the CGI movies work well in 3D.

Certainly theToy Storymovies work well in 3D, andUpwas fantastic.

And make it a creative choice to do this movie.

Was there commerce involved?

The idea of having a return on this movie is great.

We think it works.

Youre executive-producingFrankenweenieat the moment, which is looking great.

I went and had a look at them making it…Isnt it amazing down there?

I love stop motion, and I love what Henry Selick does.Me too.

Again, digging back to the foundations of animation in many ways.

But what are the other things you want to do?

Are you going to get usThe Snow Queen?

I have to ask everyone involved in Disney that.

[Laughs] I think its coming!

Im actually interested in busting out of our Disney style a little bit.

Im really excited aboutFrankenweeniebecause of that.

Its something different for us.

I think the same for hand drawn, and for CG.

Theres a house style that we have.

And even though we vary that style, wheres the really interesting graphic change in that style?

Just like101 Dalmatianswas a change for the animators in that era, andSleeping Beautywas.

So I think theres some graphic places to go in animation that we havent been to yet.

What Im trying to do now is find stories that motivate that kind of stylistic change on the screen.

Can you make a film thats all very roughly hued, can you make one thats done with pastels.

I think were stuck a little bit, stylistically.

Does it matter to you whether its hand drawn, or computer animated?It doesnt.

It doesnt at all.

I dont think it does to anybody any more.

I think that was an issue five years ago.

Look at the huge resurgence in stop motion, with Henry, with Aardman, with all these people.

I think the audience loves that hand-made feeling.

I think the same it true about hand drawn animation.

Its all about story, and coming up with the right story, theres an attraction to that.

Your film charts a very special time at Disney, and its a very special recollection of it.

It feels quite warts and all, especially with the commentary track on the DVD.

One of the reasons this movie worked was that twenty years had gone by.

In some sense, the emotions had calmed down a bit.

Yeah, theres a great story to tell after that era, to fill in the blanks.

That ten year period was the beginning of another era.

You take away any of those characters and itd be diminished.

Having all those characters together made it an interesting time, and certainly made it an interesting story.

Someday, yeah, I might do the next ten years.

But its a very painful time, still, for a lot of people.

There was a big course correction, and a lot of it dissolved.

Its a tough time to talk about.

But animation, for it to work, does have to change again.

Its just odd that its taken ten years for Disney to find real courage again.

I think courage is the right word.It isabsolutelycourage.

Thats what Pixar grew up on.

The courage to try something new.

It ended up being this huge business thats grown.

Now, Pixar, I cant say its run its course, because its not.

Its got a lot of amazing movies coming up.

But whats the next iteration?

Whats the most interesting advance in animation?

I think Pixar is at that place where we were inWaking Sleeping Beauty.

Where theyre looking to define themselves artistically, not just at the box office.

And that was okay in a way.

You cant judge everything by money.

And I think Pixar is a little but in that place right now.

Theyre always going to make very successful movies, but I think their slate is pretty interesting coming.

Theyre taking creative risks again, and it is that bravery issue.

Don Hahn, thank you very much!

The Lion King: the Diamond Edition out on 3D Blu-Ray, Blu-Ray and DVD 7 November