On the other hand, it can lead to very a disjointed discussion.
And when he spoke, we wisely just listened, and let a true animation great tell his tales.
Is there a special thing in you?
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Its developed in me.
I do see things.
But then its all the things from my sketch books.
My sketch books and the figure drawings are the source for everything Ive ever animated.
Its all these observations.
The little things that make a huge difference.
You dont see it unless you are drawing it, and you have to draw it.
to make it draw it, you have to have observed it.
you could see it, or you could really see it.
I see myself as an artist first.
Ive never thought of myself as a Disney animator.
I never wanted to be a Disney animator.
So I always felt like maybe some day Ill get to follow this path.
Its why Im so excited that about this show.
Everything is always cleaned up or interpreted by somebody else.
Theres a longing to express yourself artistically that continues to drive me.
I always feel like Ive got one foot in Disney, and one foot out of the door.
Ive never felt like a Disney guy.
At the same time, looking back on your career, do you look back in frustration?
That it put you off your artistic self?
You know, there is a need in me to do something personal.
There has to be.
This is what I was challenging the animators with constantly on this film.
Id say this is your moment on Earth to be an artist.
You were born at this time.
You could have been born at the Renaissance and wed have been talking about sculpture.
Today were talking about animation.
This is your moment.
So you take the moment, and find something real personal, and put yourself into it.
Dont put yourself into past Disney movies.
Make it personal and real.
I know that theres people who possibly work at studios for a long time and they lose themselves.
They become, I dont know, a formula of some sort.
A caricature of themselves.
And I really dont want that.
But I really used the model that was taught to me by Frank Thomas and Ollie Johnston.
They always really respected me.
Even though I was only 20 years old.
I was ready to throw everything I did out, but they never did that.
Theyd say I really like that, I like what youre doing here Glen.
Those are the things I tried to do with the animators today.
To help them tell their idea more clearly.
The thing that happens with the computer is that its always seducing you to buy into less than.
Its seducing you to fall in love with a nicely rendered form.
And the shading that is done so nicely on that shoulder.
But who cares that the shoulder is pushed here [motions away], and its anatomically impossible!
Look at the way the wrinkle falls on that dress!
Its like, grrrr!
So Im, oh gosh, Id better be careful what I say!
But we cant stop there.
So how do we get that?
Thats where Id start to do the drawings, and push the shoulder.
See, the computer always tries to do everything symmetrical.
Symmetry is cold, and lifeless.
Giving them that goal, so that they could push and push beyond what was accepted.
I remember even for me I had to learn that lesson.
At that point he was, like, 92 years old.
He couldnt walk any more, so I wheeled him in.
He couldnt draw any more.
He was beginning to get pretty feeble.
He could talk clearly about animation, that was about all.
It was like his life was reduced to the principles of animation.
Hed still remember things that wed talked about, years ago, as a animator.
That was his world.
And I showed Ollie a scene ofTangled.
I was pointing it out.
I said look, freckles!
Weve never had freckles on a character before!
Ollie said, Well, Glen.
What I was wondering is, what is shethinkingabout?
It was like, gah, yes.
No ones going to want to eat it.
That was the drive throughout this whole process.
Have a goal thats worth fighting for.
If you dont, the computer is like a used car salesman.
Itll always make you walk off the lot with something you dont want.
Every week we had lectures and challenges to the animators.
We had to have 60% of the movie by the middle of July.
And it was impossible.
And it was all of the most subtle, difficult, stuff.
You will have animated scenes that you cant even imagine that you did.
And I cant tell you how you will do them.
Its all of this preparation that went so slow, so painful at the beginning.
And I found I wasnt doing those drawings any more.
I was doing less and less drawing.
My drawings are different now, theyre very specific about acting choices.
We actually finished the movie on time.
I was truly dumfounded by that.
How much did you have to get use to the computer?
Was it a hard process for you?
I tried animating one day on the computer.
I thought okay, Ill learn to animate on the computer.
I animated a little scene of Rapunzel.
Well, I was trying to do it anyway.
When I draw, I feel what I draw.
Im making the same face, my body, the attitude, everything.
I was trying to manipulate this character, and she was in such awkward positions.
And I knew all the pain that they went through to get to that level that I was criticising.
I realised I dont have time to learn this.
It was important that I did not animate with the computer.
What are your thoughts on the changing of the 2D world to the 3D world throughout your career?
I feel like, there was a pathway that happened onPocahontasfor me.
That I could see a whole other future, but I continued.
I thought okay, Im going to go back to that some day.
All the others are somebodys clean-up of my drawings.
But its inPocahontas, inColors Of The Wind, and its the charcoal drawings that I did.
And we used the computer to paint it, but keeping the charcoal lines in.
I thought, thats how I want to use the computer.
I want to find a way to really celebrate drawing.
To really value the energy of a line.
A line to me is like a seismograph of an earthquake, that measures emotion.
And when you clean it up, you take so much out.
Thats another direction that we can go because of the computer.
Id like to take some time and take what the computer can do, and put that into hand-drawn.
Thatd be another whole look for a movie.
I dont know what itd look like, but thats what Id like to pursue.
Whats the most important part of creating the character?
If youre going to make a mistake, dont make it in the eyes.
Because everybodys looking at the eyes.
If youre driving through an intersection, its incredible.
I can tell as Im driving past at 50mph if somebody glances at me.
We are zeroed in on [eyes].
That is the focus of attention for the animation.
Its actually a triangle of emotion, with the brow.
We spend a lot of time with the muscles in the brow.
InTangled, with Flynn, Mother Gothel, you see these little dents, these muscles.
When Rapunzel is singing, her eyebrows go down.
It was important to see that shes pulling this power from inside.
Its not just the power of the words thats making her glow, its something from inside.
What has your experience with Disney in drawing again and again done to your artistry?
So whats that done to your artistry?
The things that I value are the things that make us uniquely us, as an individual.
I love to do a drawing of a child sitting on a chair.
Ive never seen a two children sit on the chair the same.
The way one dangles her foot, theyre always moving and changing so many times.
Usually Ill have about ten different versions, because theyre moving all around.
I love these moments that are so sincere and real in life.
And if that bell doesnt go off, I keep drawing.
But what is it that rings the bell?
And its the source of those sketches.
Thats my treasure chest I keep going to.
What do you take from animation into your drawing, though?
Animating to me is sculpture.
I call my animation drawings sculptural drawing.
That is fully realised in a sense in the CG animation of this film.
You could physically put the camera anywhere around these characters.
And for me, when Im animating by hand, Im shading my drawings.
People always say why are you shading your drawings, thats so stupid?
People are going to clean it up, nobodys going to see your shading.
Im like, well because, I dont know why.
Its more believable and dimensional.
I like it more, I believe it more.
Are you already involved in new projects?
Its in the cooker!
We are encouraged to draw and draw.
What do I do with my time off?
I draw for pleasure.
When Im not being paid to draw, I draw.
There was one point I did stop drawing.
I had a heart attack in 2008 on this movie, and I stepped back from directing.
Which is why Im not directing the film.
And I focused on the animation.
For those six months, I did not draw.
I specifically held back.
I took that out of my life.
I wanted to let the land rest.
Just be thankful for the gift of life.
And just be thankful.
And thats what I would do.
My first day back at work was to design baby Rapunzel.
And my daughter had just had a baby.
I said bring her in!
Im holding my granddaughter in one arm, and Im designing baby Rapunzel.
So thats the baby in the movie, thats my granddaughter.
What a wonderful way to start drawing again.
Glen Keane, thank you very much.
Tangled is released this week in the US, and in the UK on Friday 28th January 2011.
For more on Glen Keanes show,take a look here.
