Byron Howard & Nathan Greno interview: Tangled, Disney, animation and directing Disney royalty

The story ofRapunzelis one that Disney first looked at for an animated feature back when Walt Disney was alive.

Walt Disney couldnt crack it, and over the years, others came and had a go.

And thats roughly where we started our conversation…

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You know how to set yourselves up on this one.

You came to the film after production had started.

John Lasseter was quoted as saying Disney would never release a film that wasnt good enough.

Then you find out its the50thDisney animated movie.

Nathan Greno:I know, I know!

Throw in the fact that you only have two years to make the film.

That strikes me as some convergence of pressure!

Can you give us an idea of how you tackle that?

Its just so crazy.

Im glad we made it, looking back.

But it was hard.

There were so many technical challenges, and it was an incredibly difficult film to make.

It was a beautiful film.

Byron Howard:Yeah, it was really rewarding.

And it was great, because when John first started talking about stuff, we love legacy Disney.

Just to feel like a part of that.

But even more, thats great, because its even more important that this is really, really good.

And were so proud of it.

One thing that struck me is the approach of Flynn in the film.

I find that animated films really went full circle.

At one point, we had really passive female characters and big strong butch guys.

And then it swapped then, so for a while the guys were idiots.

What was your thinking there?

BH:Its a good balance.

A lot of times, especially Disney male heroes, theyd go pretty soft.

And we know we didnt want to do that.

Its one of the reasons we didnt want him to be a prince and made him a thief instead.

So, we said, Can he have an edge to him?

Can he be a bit cheeky and sarcastic and funny and charming, and have an appeal to him?

But landing Zachary Levi as the voice is a big part of that.

Hes so smart and clever, and his adlibs are so great, and you like him straight away.

You cant help yourself.

And he brings that to Flynn.

Hes got an edge to him, but he does have that appeal.

We were pretty careful about that, crafting his character.

And balancing that, crafting Rapunzel too.

Does the relaxation of the rating help?

Because this isnt a U or G certificate film, and its going out as a PG.

Mother Gothel isnt obviously villainous from the start.

There are almost traces of Gaston fromBeauty And The Beastto her.

And villains in storybooks arent.

So, is that where the PG rating helps?

NG:Honestly, it all comes back to story.

We dont think about ratings in the beginning.

We got the rating we got, and we got a PG.

Disney would have challenged that heavily, once upon a time.

NG:They would have, yeah.

And we liked that these days, because of John Lasseter, its tell a great story.

Make a great movie.

BH:And then whatever it gets, it gets.

Its funny, because we saw when the ratings board was going to review it.

It was so late in the game and the film was done.

They demanded the film be done by that point.

Well see what happens.

We didnt really know.

What she has is her mind.

Theres people like that in the world.

Shes a real-world-bang out villain.

Its a two way relationship, though, isnt it?

BH:I think so.

Whatever Gothel understands about motherhood doesnt seem to be very much!

Shes got a very unique mothering style!

Theres this complexity that exists.

If shes too villainous, too obvious, shes going to get figured out.

[Both] Yeah!

NG:Yeah, thats right.

Going back to story.

You needed to buy that this girl would be there for 18 years.

Mother Gothel cant be mean.

She has to be very passive-aggressive.

She was one of the hardest characters to crack.

And then she was too dark for a while.

She was the toughest one, right?

BH:Yeah, exactly.

Because what you do with her directly affects how you play Rapunzel in the movie.

And we knew we didnt want a character like that.

You see it with the stepmother inCinderella.

Shes a real-world character, but she has no mercy on Cinderella.

But Cinderella herself isnt as dynamic as youd expect from a heroine in a modern movie.

Youve spoken about your reverence and respect for the Disney canon.

One thing that struck me aboutBoltand aboutTangledis this.

[Both] Yeah, yeah!

But you didnt ground your camera.

You were flowing through it.

And there seemed a little tip of that ofThe Little Mermaidthere.

NG:Again, going back to story, we looked atRapunzeland we thought, What does Rapunzel need?

She needs to be free.

So, what could she see?

Was there something she could see from the tower?

But then the tower needs to be hidden in this valley.

It was really complex.

So, it had to be something that could go up high enough.

We thought fireworks, but they felt very contemporary.

And eventually one of our story artists came up with the idea of these lanterns.

And so, we were kind of looking into that.

And theres theKiss The Girlthing [fromThe Little Mermaid], and were aware of that.

But we wanted to do something bigger and different.

BH:There wasnt a frame of the movie done.

We had no idea how we were going to do it.

With more emphasis than you could ever know!

And then we talked ourselves into more.

NG:And then we were, How the hell are we going to make this?

We keep telling everyone how big this is going to be!

And we just kept pushing it and pushing it.

Its got to be more.

And at the end of the day, it really is unlike anything thats been done before.

I think that many of Disneys best projects tend to come at a point where theres a generational shift.

You have to stay true.

To have the final word on the movie.

John has a great philosophy, which is there are no mandatory notes.

The wisest thing is to listen to everyones notes and work out whatll make the film better.

We dont have to take the notes.

We can make our own decisions.

And guide the film the way we need to.

Its not about where the great ideas come from.

It doesnt have to be ours.

Well listen to any of the 500 people on the crew.

Because everyones very passionate where we work.

Everyone wants to make a great movie.

We all have the same goal, and we have to keep the big picture in mind.

NG:And it is tough.

Theres this great story about Alan Menken.

We were working with him for a while and we were actually recording music at this point.

So, we said, Yeah.

We were like, Yeah, were not out to get you, Alan!

It might feel that way, because we are really tough on our crew, and its really hard.

But its nothing personal.

We just want the best.

And you know what?

John Lasseter is like that with us.

He just wants the best.

I think thats how you make great movies.

You just have to be fearless at times.

BH:Yeah, and we expect people to push back on us, too.

We expect people not to just cower and say what we expect them to say.

We want them to understand where were coming from and make our decisions based on that.

BH:Oh, pretty close!

The sweatbox is all about getting a bunch of people in a room to really hammer a scene.

BH:Yeah, brutally.

And thats what dailies are for.

And we really let all the arrows fly at scenes to make them better.

And at the tablet, doing these amazing drawings to help the animations get to the next level.

and you say, I work for the Disney Animation Studios.

I make animated movies.

And they say, Oh, that must be fun!

At times its fun.

But its also really gruelling, and theres always people getting into these constant heated debates and arguments.

Theres nothing wrong with that.

Its all coming from a place of real passion.

And then we go back to the story room and get pissed off again.

If it wasnt that way, I think thered be a problem.

If it was easy, youd think somethings not right.

BH:Yeah, thats one of the things that Lasseter said when he first came into the studio.

And thats really a problem in animation, probably in any film studio.

If people are being too nice and not saying what they think, thats a huge issue.

Its also an issue if one person in the room is ruling the roost, and cant be challenged.

Thats where Johns great.

Its a great way to keep the place healthy.

That would strike me as the biggest challenge, here.

Not that the film was late, but the fear of John Lasseter canning the film?

Its squarely on our shoulders.

If the films successful, great.

We take that very seriously.

Our studio will kill itself over it.

Theyll give 150% no matter what kind of story youre trying to tell.

They always care about the work so passionately, and will work themselves to death.

Are the days of software as a roadblock over?

BH:Oh, no, no.

I think its true of anything.

You know when you have your home computer?

You go, Now I have the most updated home computer in the world.

So, we ask more of the systems as we go.

100,000 objects on the screen at the same time.

Ive spoken to a few directors of animated movies, and you two seem close.

Or will you be doingMission: Impossible5?

[Laughs]

NG:Weve already pitched more movies to Lasseter.

So, thats something that were interested in.

Its not a fairytale, though.

Its fun to mix it up.

You look back at the Disney legacy and every film wasnt a fairytale.

Every couple of years Disney made another one, but theres big gaps in between.

And mixing up the types of film is kind of cool.

The films that are in development right now at Disney are really diverse and different.

BH:I loved working onBolt, and I loved working onTangled, but theyre very different movies.

Its nice to have that on your resume.

John will really support you on that, if youre passionate about something.

Byron and Nathan, thank you very much.

Tangled is released in the UK today.